İmralı Delegation Meets Press: Öcalan Hasn't Moved, No Meeting Held With Kandil

Rastinews — DEM Party İmralı Delegation member Mithat Sancar, politician Gültan Kışanak and İmralı Secretariat member Çetin Arkaş met with journalists behind closed doors in Ankara.

Sancar did not confirm reports that Abdullah Öcalan had moved to a new location on İmralı. He said the minutes of an alleged İmralı-Kandil meeting, published by Rastî, were not authentic, and that no such meeting had taken place with Kandil leaders.

Sancar said the law definitely covers Selahattin Demirtaş, but that his release would require the implementation of European Court of Human Rights rulings, not the framework law itself. Kışanak stressed that the law needed to become applicable within two months.

The law, known publicly as the framework law and formally titled the Law on Strengthening National Solidarity and Social Integration, was passed by parliament on August 10 and took effect after publication in the Official Gazette on August 18. The Monitoring and Evaluation Board established under the law held its first meeting on Monday and decided to form four subcommittees. Amid these developments, numerous documents described as "İmralı meeting notes" have surfaced publicly since late July. Both sides had denied that such meetings took place.

In this new phase of the process, the İmralı Delegation met with a group of journalists in Ankara for roughly two and a half hours and took questions from the press. Gazete Solfasol was among those present.

After opening remarks, questions were collected in three rounds. The delegation addressed nearly every issue that had been under debate in recent days.

Sancar described the law's passage as a "historic turning point": "The passage of this law should be read as the clearest and strongest sign that the process has entered a new phase. We have now entered the legal and institutional stage of the process."

Sancar dated the start of the process to October 1, 2024, noting that it has now run for 22 months.

Kışanak said the description of this as a "historic process" was, this time, not mere rhetoric: "Politicians always begin every process by calling it 'historic.' But what we see at this stage is that this is not political rhetoric — we are genuinely at a historic turning point." Kışanak stressed that the conflict rooted in the Kurdish question, which began in the Ottoman Empire's final century, had seen its harshest periods in the last 50 years, and that the chance to leave "200 years of conflict" behind had now emerged.

Arkaş, opening the meeting, described what it felt like to meet with journalists after his long years in prison: "Meeting face to face with members of the press whom I watched and read about for years from my prison cell stirred a particular excitement in me."

Will Öcalan Issue a New Call?

The first round of questions focused on Öcalan's working conditions, his status and the meeting notes. Asked whether there would be a call to lay down arms, Sancar said: "No decision has been made on this yet. Our last meeting included no such assessment. But whether this becomes necessary at a later stage will again be determined through further talks."

On claims that a call from Öcalan was imminent, he said: "No clear, direct statement to that effect was made in our meetings. But if the needs of the process make it necessary, it will be considered. If this comes up at our next visit, we will inform the public."

An Effective, Active and Defined Role

Four subcommittees were established at the first meeting of the Monitoring and Evaluation Board.

Asked whether Öcalan would sit on the Disarmament and Strategic Coordination Subcommittee, Sancar said: "This subcommittee's main function will be to oversee the disarmament process. But no decision on its working method or composition has yet been shared publicly. We certainly expect Mr. Öcalan to take on a role within this institutional structure. But that will be decided by the higher body, the Monitoring and Evaluation Board. What role he takes on in this subcommittee will be determined through talks and consultations with Mr. Öcalan. Our expectation is that he plays an effective, active and clearly defined role in the disarmament and politicization process. Both the nature of the process and its successful progress require such positioning."

Reminded that Pervin Buldan had said at a meeting in Istanbul that Öcalan would take on a role in the subcommittees, Sancar said the two statements were not in conflict: "Our friend Pervin Buldan's remarks were within that same framework. What I've said doesn't contradict what she said. But before this is clarified, formally decided and announced, for us to unilaterally say 'yes, that's how it will be' leads to misunderstandings. The process is moving forward. That is the expectation, and that is what should happen. Once it is formalized, we will assess it more openly and directly."

Öcalan Still Lives in the Same Place

Responding to reports that Öcalan had moved to a new compound on İmralı, that meetings were being held there, and that visitors were being received there, Sancar said: "Yes, we hold our meetings in a different, larger room, but Mr. Öcalan continues to stay in his old location. Claims that he has now moved to a new place and is carrying out his work there do not reflect reality."

Sancar added, however, that conditions needed to change: "The next stage of the process requires that his working and living conditions be brought into a form that allows him to play his role. It follows from the logic of the process that Mr. Öcalan should be given the means and conditions to carry out the heavy, historic task he has taken on. We expect that to happen."

He added that, should a new working environment be established, arrangements such as a secretariat and additional colleagues would "be on the agenda, and should be."

'No Such Meeting Took Place'

One of the most pressing lines of questioning concerned the document published by Rastî, which claimed a meeting had taken place on İmralı between Öcalan and organization leaders.

Sancar: "No such meeting took place. This was stated firsthand in statements made both on behalf of Mr. Öcalan and the movement. State officials confirmed this account as well. Everyone should by now recognize that these leaks — or what we call, in quotation marks, 'leaks' or 'leaking' — are not a simple matter."

Sancar drew a distinction between a meeting and communication, adding: "There was no meeting, but of course there is communication. During the siege of Aleppo, and at other stages before that, Mr. Öcalan's messages were conveyed directly to their intended recipients. There have been times when his channels of communication needed to function, and that was ensured."

Looking ahead, he left the door open: "In the period to come, other kinds of meetings should essentially be expected. That doesn't exist right now. But there will also be stages where this becomes necessary."

'No Process Has Ever Had Absolute Transparency'

Sancar said: "We hold mutual meetings that sometimes run five hours, sometimes three. Disclosing everything exactly as it happened would not fit the necessity or the spirit of these meetings and this mechanism. In comparable processes elsewhere in the world, absolute transparency — a method where everything is discussed in full public view — has never existed. Had it existed, even processes that went on to succeed might have collapsed early on. What is at stake here is not hiding something from the public, but the effort to carry a process forward in a healthy way."

According to Sancar, the definitive answer to efforts to manufacture perception through doctored transcripts is for Öcalan to be able to communicate directly with the public: "A path must be opened for Mr. Öcalan to address the public directly. If that path is opened — if journalists go directly, if academics, perhaps politicians, representatives of civil society organizations go — he can explain things himself."

Asked whether there was a timeline for journalists to make contact with Öcalan, he replied: "We have no concrete plan on this before us at the moment. But let us once again, through you, announce to the public that this is necessary, without delay, for many reasons."

"No Detailed Plan Yet, but Work Is Intensive"

Asked exactly how and by what process the weapons would be laid down, Sancar said the delegation had no detailed information. He added: "There are certainly efforts underway. There may be contacts with the organization through Mr. Öcalan, or directly — that's in the nature of this business. But we have no details on that right now. It's normal that we don't, because this is a highly sensitive period. Weapons will be laid down, people will return to the country. Even if word came that a plan had been drawn up, sharing it would not serve either the safety of the process or people's security. But that information doesn't exist anyway. There's no detailed plan, but the work is proceeding intensively."

Sancar said he expected official statements soon from both the state and the organization.

Sancar said persistent questions about how many people would benefit from the law should now be answered by the Board. "We do get various figures passed on to us. But the process has now been institutionalized, and a higher board has been formed. Statements like that should come from the board," he said.

He was direct about the law's scope: "The exceptions are explicitly listed in the law. Outside of those, propaganda and membership in the organization all fall within this law's scope. Otherwise there would have been no need for a law regulating the consequences of an organization's dissolution and the process of laying down arms."

The next step in the process is expected to be the Board's confirmation and determination decision. Sancar said: "If all sides act responsibly, in keeping with the spirit, purpose and logic of the process, we can expect the confirmation and determination decision not to be delayed. Once the decision is published, provisions on criminal and enforcement law will also begin to apply."

"No dream that we wake up to peace tomorrow morning"

Kışanak stressed that the process could not simply be left to talks between İmralı and the state: "We cannot assume this: that a delegation goes to see Mr. Öcalan on the state's behalf, they talk, they settle everything there, and tomorrow morning we wake up to peace and a democratic future where the Kurdish issue is resolved. I wish that dream were real. But we know it isn't possible."

She also criticized the subcommittees: "Having all of them made up entirely of state bureaucrats doesn't play a facilitating role in resolving this matter. There are people who will benefit from this law, and they'll have lawyers. This country has professional associations, bar associations, civil society organizations, and academics who have worked on democratization and conflict resolution. If these boards work through a participatory method open to such input, we can find answers to questions faster."

Kışanak issued this call to women's organizations: "If we are going to build peace and a democratic society, if we are going to build a shared democratic future, it is women who will mix the mortar for it. Let us be the subject of this process, its constructive force, its contributor."

"Implementation could begin within two months"

Asked about the process's timeline, Kışanak said: "Looking at this fairly, aware of the difficulties and of what needs to be done, the distance needed to make the law workable should be covered within two months. What needs to be done is clear. If the relevant mechanisms are set up and progress moves quickly, the law could reach its implementation phase within two months."

Kışanak said it was inadequate to view the law only through the question of "how many people will come down from the mountains, how many will get out of prison": "There are tens of thousands, even hundreds of thousands, of cases opened over links to the PKK — that wouldn't be an exaggeration. Some are in deferral, some under investigation, some in prosecution. There are cases where even people who sent 1,000 lira to a PKK case detainee in prison to cover daily needs have been put on trial. There are people being tried for financing terrorism because they sent money to their own child."

She stressed she had no doubt the law would be implemented: "There is nothing here that could give rise to a perception that this law was passed but will stall and never be implemented. This law will be implemented — it was passed in order to be implemented. That it passed parliament with such broad consensus is also extremely valuable."

"Sick prisoners should be released without waiting for this law"

Kışanak said sick prisoners should be the priority: "What must be done, on humane and conscientious grounds, is to create the means to release sick prisoners without waiting for this law. Time lost could cost some of them their lives. There are people in prisons who cannot go on living there and who face the risk of losing their lives any day now. An inventory of these cases has been compiled since 2013 by human rights associations and civil society organizations. The state has it — it's sitting in front of the Justice Ministry."

Arkaş, meanwhile, described a concrete incident on this subject that had occurred the day before. Mehmet Sait Yıldırım, who had gone to the island in 2015 with the five-member İmralı Secretariat group but was sent back because he had heart disease, had completed his 30-year sentence nine months earlier.

According to Arkaş's account, his sentence was extended by nine months by decision of the Prison Administration and Observation Board. Arkaş continued: "Yesterday he was brought before the Administration and Observation Board again. The board is pressing him to show remorse again. He says, 'Is this really something that should be happening in the very process we're in right now? I served my 30-year sentence, it's done. I served nine months extra, that's done too. I have heart disease.' He's 75. An unpleasant argument breaks out, he goes back to his cell, and he has a heart attack in his cell. He was taken to hospital in İzmir, and two stents were placed in his heart. According to information we obtained through his lawyers, he's in intensive care. Things like this don't serve the spirit of the process. They aren't examples that renew or nourish people's faith in the process."

Arkaş, who said he himself had been held in prison three and a half years beyond his term, said: "Prisoners who serve 40 or 45 years in prisons elsewhere in the world are isolated cases. In Turkey's prisons, the number of prisoners who have completed or exceeded 30 years is around 2,000. Nowhere else in world history has any region held so many people in prison, en masse, for such long periods."

"This law clearly covers Demirtaş"

Reminded of the debate — which MHP Chairman Devlet Bahçeli has also weighed in on — over whether the law covers Demirtaş, Sancar said: "The debate over whether the law covers Demirtaş or not is pure speculation. This law clearly covers Demirtaş. But the law doesn't need to come into force for Demirtaş to be released, or for Yüksekdağ to be released."

Sancar said the basis for that is Article 90 of the Constitution: "Constitutional Court rulings and European Court of Human Rights rulings must be implemented immediately. They must be carried out without discrimination, regardless of the person or the case, for Demirtaş, for Kavala, for Can Atalay, for everyone whose name we don't even know. Complying with ECtHR rulings is an explicit requirement of Article 90 of the Constitution. If you're not complying with your own constitution, that's the real problem."

Sancar also referred to the ECtHR Grand Chamber's ruling the day before, on August 25, finding a second violation in the case of Osman Kavala and ordering his release at the earliest opportunity. He said: "The ruling issued yesterday on Osman Kavala carries very serious warnings and criticisms in its content and findings. This isn't the first time — other rulings contain similar findings. If your Council of Europe membership continues, you need to fulfill the requirements of that membership."

Sancar also recalled that he and Pervin Buldan had visited Demirtaş at Edirne Prison on August 15: "We discussed these matters there too. We stated as much in our written statement when we came out." In that statement, the delegation had said of Demirtaş and Adnan Selçuk Mızraklı, who was visited alongside him: "Our friends should not be deprived of their freedom for even one more hour."

"We don't accept having this confined to certain topics"

Asked about the new constitution debate that has picked up pace since the framework law passed, Sancar answered with two principles the party has long championed: "A new constitution needs to be drafted. But it has to be drafted with the broadest possible social and political participation. Second, conditions need to become suitable for the debate to proceed in a healthy way. We used to call this clearing the road. You need to clear the field of every practice and legal arrangement that blocks free debate and encourages arbitrary conduct."

Sancar objected to reducing the debate to President Recep Tayyip Erdoğan's re-candidacy. "When the constitutional debate comes up, we do not accept it being squeezed into certain headlines alone, such as Mr. Erdoğan running again or similar topics. Turkey has a democracy problem. The Kurdish issue is not separate from that — the two are intertwined problems. We have reached an important stage with the laying down of arms, but for a great peace, one that encompasses and is built on the whole of society, we need far more. We need democracy."

Kışanak also described constitutional change as a "basic need," but said openly that she did not expect it in the short term: "No one doubts that the 1980 constitution needs to change — a consensus has formed in Turkey on that. But how it will be done is a serious problem. Unfortunately, I am not very hopeful that we will reach the maturity needed to produce such a consensus in the short term. I cannot foresee an agenda where the constitution simply arrives and changes are made as soon as this October."

Citing researcher Bekir Ağırdır, Kışanak said Turkey has a sociology "split three ways, into conservatives, secularists and Kurds," and that drafting a constitution is difficult in polarized societies. She also objected to tying the debate to the presidential election: "Treating this issue as directly linked to the presidential election is a shallow, ordinary way of thinking. There are other ways to resolve the presidency question. Just look at the current composition of parliament — how much is even missing, that it could be made up just like that."

"Laws supporting the process must pass quickly"

Sancar also listed what needs to happen before a constitution is drafted: "First of all, we need legal changes and regulations to support the current disarmament and political agreement process. This is also in the parliamentary commission's report. Everything from the Anti-Terror Law to the Law on Assemblies and Demonstrations must be changed, and quickly."

Sancar said they call their approach the "peace triangle": "Disarmament, resolving the Kurdish issue, and democratization that secures social peace across the whole country. These three lines are our core program."

Kışanak listed three priorities for the new legislative term: "We definitely need regulations that strengthen press freedom and freedom of expression. We need regulations that expand the space for freedom of organization. And we need legal changes that let local democracy survive and eliminate the trustee practice. These are practical democratization steps that do not require constitutional change."

Asked about polls showing declining public support for the process, Sancar said, "In the polls I've seen, support rises after the law," while Kışanak said: "No one is against the process. We are meeting with very different segments of society, from the far right to the far left, Kurds and Turks alike. There is a small group that says 'this cannot be done,' but the majority says 'this process is right, it should be carried out more solidly.' Everyone has a 'but' after that. The point is to resolve these buts, these doubts, these question marks. Everyone should call for democratic transformation from the place that speaks to their own sociology."

"Would these developments have happened in Syria without the process in Turkey?"

The day before the meeting, SDF General Commander Mazlum Abdi had announced an agreement reached with the Damascus government and the dissolution of the SDF — a topic that also came up. Sancar said: "The statement Mazlum Abdi made yesterday, and the point reached after two days of talks beforehand, matters. They themselves say this is how the democratic integration model is being put into practice, and we assess it the same way. This development in Syria cannot be considered separately from this process in Turkey. If this process hadn't started in Turkey, and weren't underway right now, would these kinds of developments have happened in Syria? That's a very big question mark."

Sancar said, "Democratic integration is not a model of assimilation, of giving up one's identity and demands." Asked about PJAK in Iran, he said: "When similar processes take hold in Iran, when solutions come through democratic integration, democratization and dialogue, similar developments will happen there too."

Kışanak recalled the photograph Mazlum Abdi and İlham Ahmed took on Mount Qasioun in Damascus: "It was extremely valuable. People who played important roles over 14 years in a war where a people tried to defend itself against ISIS climbing to a hill overlooking Damascus and giving that photo tells us this: what needs to be done to solve the problem is clear, in Damascus, in Ankara and in Tehran alike. Opening the way for all differences to take part in government, leaving no one out. That is what will prevent conflict. Kurds will take part in government there, in Damascus too. The way must be opened for that. That is the real solution."

"We built 100,000 kilometers of road"

Asked what they had done on the ground, Arkaş summarized the year and one month since his release: "A friend calculated it once — we've covered 100,000 kilometers. We mostly hold public meetings, distinct gatherings with different segments of society. People have question marks in their heads, and rightly so: why did this process start, how did it start, where will it lead? They have worries, they have concerns, they have hopes. We try to ease the worries and concerns, and grow the hope."

Arkaş also explained the source of the intense interest: "Chairman Öcalan has lived on an island for 27 years without any contact with the outside world. What is life like on İmralı, how is his health, what is his daily life like, what is his outlook on developments? There is very intense curiosity and interest. We're aware that this interest is largely a reflection of a great longing for Öcalan. Having stayed near him for a while creates a kind of spiritual effect."

"Let's not say soldier, police or guerrilla — let's call them all our children"

Asked about the condolence tents set up recently, Arkaş said tents had been set up for organization members killed during the conflict period between 2015 and 2023 whose identities have only now been established, and that the number runs into the hundreds: "New condolence tents will probably be set up. Informing the families produces very tragic scenes. There are families who, after the law passed, expected the guerrillas to come home from the mountains. When our friends go to visit, mothers, fathers, sisters ask, 'Are you here to tell us our child is coming home under this law?' But unfortunately what they get is news of their deaths."

Arkaş, who said he had attended nearly every condolence visit in the Diyarbakır region, shared a memory: "A family standing behind photographs of two young guerrillas, one woman and one man, recognized me. They asked, 'Do you know these children?' I said I didn't. They showed me a photo of themselves with me. It turned out I had been in the same prison as their uncle 30 years ago. They had come to visit their uncle — they were three or four years old at the time. Those children grew up, went to the mountains, and were killed in clashes. It was a very painful scene for me."

'Our Story Is Little Known in the West'

Arkaş also made an appeal to the journalists in the room: "Our story is little known in the west. It always came through as numbers: 40 terrorists killed, 50 terrorists killed. No names, no faces. We are someone's children too. We also had loved ones, desires, longings, a search for life. We didn't come out of a hollow in a tree. I ask you to turn your lenses that way too." Arkaş said very serious suffering had also occurred on the Turkish side, and summarized his proposal: "For Turkish children and Kurdish children, let's not say soldier, police or guerrilla. Let's call them all our children. If we can build this understanding, we can build a new, shared future together."

Arkaş also recounted visiting the mother of a university friend who had been forcibly disappeared in custody, after his release from prison: "She hugged me and cried. She said, 'I wish my son had also spent 34 years in prison and were coming home now.' He has no grave — he was disappeared in custody. On our side there are still dozens of families with no grave, without even a single bone recovered."

"I have never met a friend with such enthusiasm"

Asked whether organization cadres should hold positions in state institutions in the future, Arkaş first offered a personal observation: "I have never met a friend who was eager to take a position in state institutions." Arkaş said he enrolled in Istanbul University's Faculty of Political Science in 1988, and that he now watches former classmates who have become provincial governors on television from his cell. "I know that in 1991, 500 university students from across Istanbul University went to the mountains. If these people had been driven by individual goals, ambitions or expectations, they could have reached very different places today. The circumstances, the conditions, the atmosphere of the time made that choice a moral and conscientious necessity. I hope and wish that this remains in the past, and that it never happens again," he said.

His answer to the principled side of the question was this: "If the state wants to create the perception and feeling among Kurds too that 'Yes, this is our state,' it must approach this with great self-confidence. Look at the origins of people who have served as prime minister in Britain — there are people who came from former colonies. People from very different backgrounds and peoples held positions in the Ottoman administration. That is the expression of being a large and self-confident state."

"I Would Very Much Like to Say We Are at a Point of No Return"

The question that dominated the meeting's closing was whether the process had passed the point of no return. Arkaş's answer carried cautious hope: "I would very much like to say this: Yes, friends, we are at a point of no return, no danger remains, and wide, beautiful, blue seas await us ahead. All our effort is aimed at being able to say that. But we must move quickly. There may be domestic and foreign actors who see the impact this process will create as contrary to their own interests. That is why those carrying out the process must move quickly, without being hasty, but acting fast."

/ Solfasol